Our poor bodies are just broken and we're exhausted. We got terrible diet, we got societal stress, emotional stress, physical stress. And our bodies cannot make the endocannabinoids in a way that they're supposed to. Our guts are broken. And that's where all of this magic happens, is in our GI system. Mm hmm. So it's many, many years of abuse, and our bodies are doing absolutely the best that they can, but they need help. [00:00:27][27.4]
Speaker 2: [00:00:29] Welcome to the Moment Shell Club podcast. I'm Elisabeth, mum of two boys and no stranger to the heaviness of motherhood. I face challenges every single day and found that I handle the load so much better leveraging cannabis for her. Whether you're new to cannabis or an avid consumer, join me as I sit down with experts, OGs and mamas to share stories and education to help make our days just a little more chill. My guest today is Leslie Apgar, M.D., who is a board certified OB-GYN and skilled, minimally invasive surgeon. During her 21 year career, she served on numerous hospital committees helping to educate and train new surgeons and students, change policies and embrace new technologies. Unsatisfied by many aspects of traditional medicine and seeing an obvious void in the market, Dr. Apgar founded Greenhouse Wellness, a medical cannabis dispensary in Maryland, alongside her best friend, Gina Dubay. The duo founded Bliss Ziva, a cannabis line of products directed toward women and published a behind the scenes look at the industry called High Heels. How two women found their footing in the medical cannabis industry. They have appeared on the Today Show, The List, CNN and various other local and national outlets, as well as numerous international publications and podcasts. As medical director of greenhouse wellness, Dr. Apgar gives cannabis education lectures to physicians, patients and community members. She performs complimentary daily medical cannabis consultations in person or by telehealth to patients all over the world. Dr. Apgar is passion in cannabis education and women's health, and her appointment as editor in chief of AJ EMR aligns with her core mission to improve the understanding of cannabinoid therapy, decrease suffering and improve the lives of her patients and colleagues. Born and raised in the Pacific Northwest, Dr. Apgar attended medical school at Penn State University and completed her ob gyn residency at Penn State University, Milton Hershey Medical Center. During her leisure time, you can find her hanging out with her five amazing kids and husband, as well as spending time with her horse Figaro. An avid reader, she will often polish off a novel in one sitting while traveling, which is another passion of hers. Please, please, please enjoy my conversation with Lesley. Lesley Ackbar, welcome to the show today. [00:02:51][142.6]
Speaker 1: [00:02:53] Thanks so much for having me, Elizabeth. [00:02:54][1.0]
Speaker 2: [00:02:55] Yeah, I'm super excited because today I want to talk all about how we'd helps your vagina. [00:03:00][5.2]
Speaker 1: [00:03:01] It's actually quite funny because I'm an open guy and by training and people have been asking me about sex for a long time and how to make their sex life better and all the changes that happen to us as new moms and then as we go through menopause and our vaginas change again. So it has been a topic of conversation that I've had for years with my OPG and patients. And then when I got into the cannabis industry, it took a different turn, which was unexpected. [00:03:30][29.0]
Speaker 2: [00:03:31] Mm hmm. And the topic of conversation that I normally have with all the mamas is all the things that we kind of silently suffer with because there isn't a mom that I meet that, you know, expresses frustration in their cycle or postpartum pregnancy or, you know, just all the things that go on with their hormones that thinks that they are alone in it. Now, I know for me, I am like clockwork every month. And selfishly, I'm super excited to talk to you about this day because I know that cannabis can help a lot of the things that just even your cycle comes with. So three days before I'm period, it's my back, day before it's my anxiety during it's the cramps and bloating and super hungry and eating everything. And then the two days after I feel great and I level out and then it's back into this like almost vicious cycle. And I know it's something a lot of other mamas struggle with. What are the common complaints that you hear about? So we can validate all those mamas and what they're feeling and that they are not alone. [00:04:37][65.9]
Speaker 1: [00:04:38] Yeah. And Elizabeth, I hear about all of it, right? So it's the PMS, it's PMDD now the cramps, the menstrual cramps, the heavy flow, the incredible anxiety that happens. Some people really suffer from that intensely before their periods start. Just the fact that we're so out of balance, our hormones are just out of whack. And what's really interesting about cannabis that I had to do a deep dive into when I first entered this industry is to learn about it, because of course, it's not taught in most medical schools at all, even today, which is something I'm working to change. But cannabis is job is to promote homeostasis or balance. So if a hormone is too high, it's going to help level it out, make it more normal so that your feelings are normal and your symptoms are more tolerable and more normal. So that's something that a lot of times people don't understand. The other thing is that our own natural cannabis, which is always a total crazy statement to make because people don't understand that our bodies make its cannabis all the time. Endocannabinoids, they're called those endocannabinoids. The first one that was discovered is named a nod to mind, which is named after the Sanskrit word for supreme bliss or joy. And a nod to mind is what you might think of as that runner's high. And it really kind of knows these endorphins, right? Well, it's actually this endocannabinoid a nod to my an anonymous does that feel good chemical in our bodies? And it falls as estradiol levels fall and estradiol levels fall right before you get your period. And so which is it? Is it the lack of estrogen or is it the lack of a nod to mind which is causing that PMDD or the PMS symptoms that we're all suffering from? It's a fascinating area of research and to be able to balance out those symptoms and those feelings and that suffering was just a tiny little bit of plant based cannabinoids, instead of relying on your own body, has just made an incredible difference. [00:06:45][126.8]
Speaker 2: [00:06:45] That's super interesting because I have post-pregnancy my my estrogen levels were super low and the doctors were saying I went to functional, I went to like all sorts of doctors to try and get a hold of everything doing blood tests. I mean, all the type of tests that people would probably be really grossed out to hear about. And they all told me my estrogen levels were low and I had to put a cream on every single day on my lower back in order to make that better. So when it comes to like a lower estrogen and then supplementing with the plant, how does that work with each other and in your body to level out? [00:07:23][37.8]
Speaker 1: [00:07:24] Well, yeah. So it turns out that your body is really good at creating babies and you breastfeed those babies and making sex not feel good while you're supporting another baby by making breast milk and by feeding that baby. Because biologically, it's not a great idea to get pregnant right away. Your body absolutely needs to heal and replenish because babies are amazing parasites and they just absolutely strip away from the host, from the mom. All of the things that mom needs. And so it's so funny because because moms are always worried about what's been happening to the baby, what's happened to the baby. And I'm like, listen, the baby's going to be okay. But you, my sweet, are not going to be fine. It's going to take you a while to recover from having a baby. It is while it's a natural thing, it's not nothing, right? It's it is a big deal. And it does take your body a long time to recover. So when you have just pushed the baby out or had a baby cut out of you, your body immediately goes to the state of what you would think of as menopause. You're like 80 years old. You have absolutely no estrogen in your body. You have all the side effects of having the research on your body. Your brain doesn't work, your vagina does not work yet. And it's an absolute nightmare. And that's not necessarily going to change until you're done breastfeeding. So I do I do warn my patients, Listen, your body's just not right until you're done breastfeeding. So you can expect some improvement. And I have some things to give you and to try that we can help work together. But really, you got to wait until your body is done breastfeeding and your hormone levels will naturally start to recover. If you're in a situation where your your hormones are not recovering naturally, that's when plant based cannabinoids or cannabis is going to be much more effective because you can use higher doses. I do recommend that people use very, very, very low dose when pregnant or breastfeeding. And quite honestly, the American College of OB-GYN has put out a statement which I agree with, which is that we just don't know what the effects of these are in pregnancy and breastfeeding. And we know that the breast milk has eight times the concentration of cannabinoids that are found in the serum. And we know that a baby's brain is very plastic and developing and that these endocannabinoids are cannabinoids. They really do have an effect on the developing brain. And so we just don't know very much about it yet. So we have to tread lightly. That said, some of the medications that we give our moms for postpartum depression and everything, we don't really necessarily know what the side effects of those are in the developing brains of our babies either. So I think that we just need to take it all with a grain of salt and think about this holistically. And as in traditional medicine, the lowest dose possible to get the effects that you're looking for is what I would always recommend. So I just I kind of wanted to put that caveat out there. I would go too far away from from the safety aspect of cannabis and pregnancy and breastfeeding. [00:10:38][194.2]
Speaker 2: [00:10:39] Yeah, definitely. And if we kind of focus on that postpartum piece for a little bit because that's like the transition period where you are in survival mode, taking care of a baby and postpartum, when that sleep deprivation hits and everything gets all worked out. How how does cannabis help postpartum and what what ways can you utilize cannabis to help it? Because postpartum means a lot of things for a lot of different people too. Sometimes it's anxiety, sometimes it's like deep depression, sometimes it's, you know, lacking sleep. And I'm I'm sure you have a ton more examples of that, too. But for all of the all of the just nuances of postpartum and how it affects women differently, is cannabis something that can help all of them, no matter what part of postpartum they're struggling with? Like what are the what are the things you're seeing in postpartum and how are you seeing it helped by cannabis? [00:11:31][52.4]
Speaker 1: [00:11:32] Such a great question, and I'm sure your listeners know that cannabis is not just a plant that you dry and smoke in a joint or a bong. Cannabis is so much more than that. And while our ancient ancestors certainly use cannabis in that way, they also made teas and tinctures and they would eat the hemp seeds and the plant as well, as well as feed it to their livestock and then eat their livestock. So they were ingesting cannabinoids all the time. So the best advice I have for my patients is to use a little bit of an orally prepared medication, whether that is a tincture or a or a pill. And the industry has really just done it wrong out of the gate. It's been a recreational industry that is masquerading as a medical one. And they they have these offerings of these just ridiculously high levels of THC, so much THC that it's it's I always give this analogy. It's like, okay, you're you're finally feeling up to it. You're going to have a dinner party, you're having some friends over, you're going to feel human again, right? And you're going to make this beautiful salmon dinner with asparagus and you send your husband to the store to get a nice Pinot noir, which will just bring out all the flavors of that salmon. It's going to be a delicious meal. And your husband comes home with a bottle of Everclear because that had the highest alcohol content that he could find. It's the same if you've ruined dinner, you've ruined the whole thing. And this really is a Goldilocks medication. I'm just going to focus on the THC for right now. But it's a Goldilocks medication. Too much is poison. Not enough is not going to be effective. So there is that just right milligram amount, which is different for everyone. I also want every listener to please understand how individualized your body is. There are lots of enzymes in our livers and each of us have our own set of mutations in those enzymes as to how we process these medications as we take them into our bodies. And if you take a small amount of CBD and THC by mouth and you've had a fatty meal, that's going to affect you much differently than if you took it on an empty stomach. So most of my patients are really interested in taking things orally. A lot of my patients don't want to smoke or vape. They just they think it's tawdry and just not okay and I'm not going to argue with them. I'm never going to tell somebody that they must combust or smoke. It is not a great idea from a medical standpoint. Combustion or sending something up in flames ruins most of what the good medicine is in there and just gets you sort of straight to the THC. You also get all of the carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide emissions in the tires. That's not really the idea. So Gina, who's my business partner in the cannabis entity that we have created, is it was so important to us that when we created a product for women, we had a clean, sexy product because we know what women want. And so we developed a vape pen that's called placebo, which is a combination of the word bliss and sativa, like uplifting. And because we just needed to find a modicum of bliss and calm in this crazy chaotic life that we're living. But we know that women want something that's sexy. They want something that feels good in their fingers. It has a nice touch to it. It looks pretty feel bad. Yeah, exactly. You just slip into your purse, it tastes nice and it doesn't knock you on your ass. Like I know what you moms have in your Starbucks cups on the soccer sidelines. And it is not Starbucks. Like, I get your your mommy sippy cups, right? It's wine or vodka or whatever. And so we wanted a safer alternative. So for a lot of postpartum moms who are suffering from whatever symptoms and they need immediate gratification in a different way or potentially a better way of medicating is to take a little bit of a pop on a vape pen because it instantly hits your bloodstream, You're immediately feeling better and you don't need very much. And as long as you're doing it correctly with the proper ratios of CBD to see and just a little THC, you're going to be in a much better mindset. Your depression is going to be better. You're going to sleep like a dad. You're actually potentially going to be interested in having sex with your husband, which he will appreciate, and then he will be nicer to you. So it's this whole ridiculous interplay and how to regain balance back to your life. And and those are typically the two most common modalities. I like to get people taking their medicine basically like a vitamin, like a very, very low dose of THC and a much higher dose of CBD every day as just sort of your like if you're low in vitamin D, I would say go outside, get some sunlight and take a vitamin D supplement. It's the same thing because you're our bodies are just broken, we're fasted, we've got terrible diet, we've got societal stress, emotional stress, physical stress, and our bodies cannot make the endocannabinoids in a way that they're supposed to. Our guts are broken. And that's where all of this magic happens, is in our GI system. So it's many, many years of abuse and our bodies are doing absolutely the best that they can, But they need help just like we need help with our vitamin D levels. And that analogy seems to help people kind of understand what I'm talking about when I talk about supplementing with a little bit of oral B and THC. [00:17:25][352.6]
Speaker 2: [00:17:26] Yeah, that makes sense because it's all about the tools that we have in our toolkit. And cannabis is just one piece of it getting sunlight and vitamin D and you mentioned diet is another key component when it comes to diet and cannabis. Is there certain diets that make more sense to having the cannabis, you know, react with your body? And you said everybody's different? Is it just like a more clean diet or what? What tools can we put together to help make cannabis work better in our body? [00:17:56][30.3]
Speaker 1: [00:17:57] It's a good question. Why doesn't everybody ask me this question? And oh, my God, great question. Okay. [00:18:01][4.5]
Speaker 2: [00:18:02] Did work. It's so easy to like. It is hard. Everything on the table and do all the right things when the chicken nuggets are right there and the McDonald's French fries are so easy to grab. But if you can make those better choices and make everything work because you make a great point about like the husband and the sex and the kids and the sleep and everything, and if if we could be balanced in ourselves, everything else is going to be more balanced because we have more capacity. We're responding, not reacting like everything just works better when mom feels better. You know. [00:18:31][29.0]
Speaker 1: [00:18:31] It's so true. And I will preface this by saying, listen, this is hard and our society does not support this. Everything in our society is about immediate gratification and fast food and quick. This immediate, immediate, immediate. And this is not the way to look at overall health. There is a reason that your doctor tells you to exercise and to eat a healthy diet and to go outside of nature. But I will take it a step further. You touched on this already, which is part of what I always teach my patients. One tool in the toolbox is cannabis, but that is one way of activating your endocannabinoid system. Another way of activating your other cannabinoid system is to go outside in nature, take your walk, do yoga, and to eat an anti-inflammatory or a low calorie diet. And I know this is not a popular thing, but listen, guys, this is just science, okay? I'm not on a soapbox here, but a plant based diet is a healthier option to reduce your body of all of this inflammation, because when we have inflammation, that is where disease starts. And the reason that women are so predisposed to all these autoimmune disorders, which can happen right after you have a baby, by the way, is because we're Yeah, yeah, that's a whole nother podcast. But yeah, that could be a lot of a lot of information. And so anything that you can do, I'm not saying you can't ever meet again. My God, how about you give up meat a couple of days a week and eat healthier options of your meat? Or how about you just eat less meat? So all of this animal protein that we are putting into our bodies is causing a lot of harm to us. And so if you look at evolutionarily speaking, we as humans used to eat 20 or so different kinds of foods a day and we had a hugely varied diet and our bodies were designed for that. And now we really just kind of eat the same foods three meals a day, and it's really ruining our body. So my advice to you is give yourself some grace and do the best that you can and really try and embrace what it would look like if you incorporated more fruits and vegetables into your diet. And if you focused on that and you focused on getting outside. I don't care if you sit on the front stoop. [00:20:57][145.8]
Speaker 2: [00:20:58] Yeah, it doesn't bother me. [00:20:58][0.7]
Speaker 1: [00:20:59] It doesn't matter. Nature really does cure us and fix a lot of evils. And so those kinds of things are going to supplement, augment and support, adding a little bit of cannabis into your diet. And it's hard. It's a holistic approach at living your best life. And I'm not saying it's easy, but you just have to take the first step. Just little baby steps. Have your eye on the prize. Some days you will want a Big Mac or a Whopper or whatever, and that's okay. But the next day maybe you don't. And then you can pay attention to how your body is feeling and how you're sleeping and how how your mood is, which is really what I'm trying to do with my patients is and what my patients want with they're coming to me for is to get off of all the medications that they are on. They don't like the side effects. They don't like all of the the the meds that they're on their on a laundry list of medicine. Cannabis has been an incredibly helpful tool to help people offer lower their dose of all these prescribed pharmaceuticals. And yeah, and that's one of the things that I'm planning to be the most satisfying in this line of work. [00:22:15][75.5]
Speaker 2: [00:22:16] When it comes to like patients that have come to you and they're like, I'm on these antidepressants because I feel like that's the most common one for postpartum is doctors will put women on antidepressants. Can you tell a story of a patient that was on antidepressants and how you brought her from using them and like how you introduced cannabis into that? That helped with the depression and anxiety and like kind of common stuff that you see with patients? [00:22:42][25.5]
Speaker 1: [00:22:43] Yeah, I actually had a woman who I think she was like 38, 39, and she was almost going to be admitted to the hospital. She had such a severe, like postpartum almost psychosis. She was just just grasping at straws with her. It was not okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's unbelievable what women go through on a daily basis. That silent suffering, like you said. And her husband, who had who actually still was using cannabis, It's amazing once you enter this industry, how many people use cannabis? They would never admit it before. Very entertaining to me. But anyway, he suggested to her that she reach out to me because he knew the dispensary that I own and with Gina. And then he said, You need to go talk to Dr. Apgar. So she came in and we just had a heart to heart and there were tears and she was just feeling hopeless and like there was just no moving forward. She wasn't able to breastfeed. So that wasn't an issue. She was really afraid of the stigma and really afraid that her kids would somehow find out or he just was. There was a lot of shame and guilt. And so I talked to her about to see then why we developed it, because it doesn't smell like cannabis. It smells like either vanilla or smoke, you know, like a coconut lime kind of a flavor. So I explained that it was very discreet and that she could do that in the laundry room and nobody would know what she was doing. And and anyway, once I kind of allayed her fears and once I explained what cannabis was and what it wasn't, because so much of this is education we have, we come to the table with all these weird preconceived ideas and the Nancy Reagan just say no. And that horrible add of this is your brain. This is your brain on drugs, like all these things that we were just inundated with that we have to undo, we have to reset what is reality and what is what is really happening here. So once we had had that conversation, she was I could see her start to perk up a little bit, like there was like a light in her eyes again, like maybe this was going to be okay. She felt like she was dead. She felt with the antidepressants, that there was just nobody home. She was behind like a like a pane of glass. Like there was just like everything was blunted, which is what we tell patients. Yes, your highs are going to be blunted. Your lows are going to be worse, and you're going to be kind of hanging out in the middle. But that was the fix or the cure was worse than the disease for her. And I realized very quickly that we needed to get her off. So her primary care was completely on board, which was amazing. Good. And so we just we just slowly weaned her off of her SSRI and we replaced it with cannabis. Like I told you before, I use it as a vitamin and I gave her like a 14 to 1. It was like 0.17 milligram THC and a five milligrams CBD tablet every single day just to kind of increase her normal levels like her normal vitamin levels back to like what would be considered a more normal level so that she could function. And that was Ziva that it was a 1 to 1 CBD THC, but very, very low dose, very low potency. She says it saved her life, which is insane. But I think I think I caught her at the right time. I think it was a village. We had a lot of really cool support around her. But I think the and you you see when you when you use of the pen the idea of how you can go from feeling like such hell to feeling. Wow. I can take a breath and my I.D. is gone. It's. It's. It just changes everything. You don't feel that heaviness following you around. So it took her, like, two months, maybe like ten weeks. And we had her off of everything. And she is now totally recovered, like out of that postpartum state and living her best life. And she uses cannabis when she needs to, but it's not necessarily like she traded one device for another. I think that's the other misconception, is that I'm just getting people off their opioids and off of their benzos and their sleep agents and their desires and getting them addicted to cannabis. And that could not be further from my patients do not want to be impaired. They do not want to be on medication. They just want to live their best lives. [00:27:26][283.7]
Speaker 2: [00:27:27] Mm hmm. And that's what's so great about low dosing, too. And you had mentioned about the recreational industry, and I feel like it's always been on us to to find the information for ourselves. Like, if you're hungry for that information, you don't want this high. And maybe you heard that a little bit goes a long way because the common misconception is like you have to be super high to feel the benefits, or you take one little puff and you are going to be on the moon instantly. And that couldn't be further from the truth because it's just a little bit that can just balance you out a little bit or give you. I always say it's like a breath of fresh air. Like you said the same thing. I always feel like I get just the most deepest expansive breath after I take a little bit of. [00:28:07][39.8]
Speaker 1: [00:28:08] Yeah. [00:28:08][0.0]
Speaker 2: [00:28:08] Vape pen or or sometimes like, I'll smoke it out of like a bowl, like a little pipe piece or something. And it's just like instant and instant relief is just like, incredible. Like nothing can beat it. And it's way better than wine. Like, you get that head change with wine and Oh, God, I love it. [00:28:25][17.0]
Speaker 1: [00:28:26] I love wine. I have wine delivered to my house. I love wine, but it is in fact toxic. It's just that our society has deemed it socially acceptable to drink alcohol. But what it does to your body is no joke. So it is a much, much, much safer option to use cannabis than to use alcohol. And oh, by the way, there's no calories in weed. And then if you if you get the right exactly. No hangover, if you get the right endocannabinoids or I'm sorry fight it could have going to get like the THC V that actually suppresses your appetite and that is something that our patients crave. So we will sometimes get vape pens in that have higher levels of THC and they'll say, Hey, which is the one that's not going to give me the munchies. And yeah, you're going to have to experiment a little bit. And unfortunately, because of the fight that we're fighting, trying to get this industry to change, and it's because of podcasts like yours, Elisabeth, that we are finally helping to educate the public. But the public is going to have to be smarter than the industry. And you really do have to educate yourself and you do have to ask a lot of questions, and you do have to look for the lowest potency and the lowest dose because unfortunately, like I said, it's a whole bunch of Everclear that they're trying to sell you and all you're looking for is that Pinot noir. So when we raise our voices and when we demand excellence and when we demand refinement and sophistication, it will come. It just it it's going to take some time and some effort. [00:29:59][93.1]
Speaker 2: [00:30:00] It will. It will, but it's going to be so great that day when the stigma goes down and there's. [00:30:06][5.8]
Speaker 1: [00:30:06] More registration. [00:30:06][0.2]
Speaker 2: [00:30:07] And more resources because it's I haven't had many bad experiences at dispensaries here in Maryland. I feel like every dispensary I've been in and very similar to yours because I read your book High Heels that you and Gina wrote and just the atmosphere that you guys are trying to cultivate where it's something comfortable enough for your your own mothers to come in, whether they support cannabis or not, but they still feel comfortable. I feel like having having places like yours are what are really going to help all of that, just being more comfortable and just welcoming. And I just appreciate, you know, dispensaries like yours and like the mission that you and Gina are on. But I want to know about your first time using cannabis. Like, was this through your journey to the dispensary? [00:30:55][48.3]
Speaker 1: [00:30:56] Oh, no, no, no, no. This is much, much earlier. Yes, I am not. Gina was a teetotaler. She had always had a security clearance and had a very sheltered life. I like mine on the outskirts of Seattle. No, I want to say I was probably in the seventh grade or something. It was certainly around. And I. I guess I must have always suffered from some level of anxiety. There must've been some part of that. I used to get stomach aches, and I think that intuitively I knew that this was just something that could help me and it wasn't something that I did often, but it was definitely a part of my adolescence. Then into college sets. I certainly had experience with it. What I didn't have experience with because it really wasn't a thing so much, was the oral version or the edible. And for me, I'm just sensitive. Sadly, the way that my liver breaks this stuff down just a tiny little bit, like two and a half milligrams is really plenty for me. [00:31:57][60.7]
Speaker 2: [00:31:57] I'm the same. [00:31:57][0.3]
Speaker 1: [00:31:58] Way. Mm hmm. Yeah, I just. I can't even remotely have these bigger doses of gene. It's completely different. Like, she could take 20 or 30 or even 40 milligrams. [00:32:05][7.5]
Speaker 2: [00:32:06] Oh, my gosh. [00:32:06][0.2]
Speaker 1: [00:32:06] Sleep through the night and be perfect. I would go to the E.R. over Iraq. I would be. [00:32:11][5.0]
Speaker 2: [00:32:12] Gone. [00:32:12][0.0]
Speaker 1: [00:32:12] Yeah, So. [00:32:13][0.3]
Speaker 2: [00:32:13] Exactly. [00:32:13][0.0]
Speaker 1: [00:32:14] Exactly. So one of the things in Maryland that I'm actually concerned about is the fact that we have passed recreational and that's come in. And in some states, the quality has gone down, meaning that it's all Everclear, there's no CBD anymore. There's no owners to be found. What I'm hoping is that our education now and our knowledge now and the research now is going to really prevent that from happening. It has recovered in states like California, which, as everybody knows, was the first to incorporate a program to their state legally. And it used to be that you couldn't find any CBD and you couldn't find lower dose options. But now when I go out to visit family, I can find those things and it makes me happy and it gives me hope. And everybody wants to know how is this going to change? My experience here in Maryland when I go into a dispensary and it's recreational. And what I say is that these medical patients are the same as recreational patients is recreational patients are using cannabis for a medical concern or reason that they're just not cognizant of or they haven't cared to be cognizant of. But yeah, it's true, though. I'll give you yeah, I'll give you the the story of the the time that I had made an erroneous judgment, which we were trained not to do. Yes, I had a guy come in. It was the epitome of what you would think a stoner looks like. And this was early on because we were one of the very first dispensaries in Maryland to open, and he was just the epitome of the stoner. And I was just like, okay, I know how this is going to go. He's going to come in. He's going to ask for whatever has the highest THC, and I'm going to try my best to dissuade him from that and trying to get to the root of the matter. And that's exactly what happened. And I do fault myself for for making those assumptions because it's not a good idea to assume. And anyway, we actually ended up having a breakthrough together. He was a little irritated at me. I was trying to be super patient and kind and really ask him multiple different ways and times how he was looking to feel or what he was trying to avoid or what experience he was looking for, whatever. And he finally, I think, just got so exasperated by this annoying doctor behind the counter. He just wanted his goddamn we just stopped. He he just stop. He he shrugged his shoulders. He's like, Listen, I was in a rock, okay? And he had tears in his eyes when he said it. I just looked at him. I'm like, okay, I know exactly what you need. I'm telling you right now, this is not going to help you. In fact, this is going to make you worse. Yeah. Because when you been through such an incredibly traumatic experience as this, this is what happened to your body. This is what went wrong. Cannabis can help heal you and prevent PTSD. You've taken appropriately. But I'm telling you too much. THC is going to cause you to be paranoid and anxious, and that is not what you need, my friend. So this is what you need over here. These are the trappings that you need to support that. And here's what I would like you to be doing is kind of like an ongoing regiment. And so at that point, we had this incredible breakthrough. But he would be the typical, quote, recreational patient coming in to get the highest and leave or whatever. So as long as we continue to educate our patients and continue to do our best every day, those kind of encounters can be turned around and made into something incredibly productive and incredibly healing. So I just want to kind of take this stigma away and let people understand that there is a very fine line between recreational and medical. And if we're just going to be able to help more people when it becomes recreational. [00:36:10][236.5]
Speaker 2: [00:36:11] Totally. And it's going to be it's going to be so exciting because I feel such a judgment when I talk about cannabis use myself, I don't know everything and I'm not telling everyone to do as I do. I just found relief in something and I feel almost an obligation to talk about it more because it has helped so much. Help me feel better. It helps me train harder, like I run longer distances. On the weekends when I like it is just all around helped everything except for when I do a strain that gives me too much munchies and I go in and like eat my son's mark or something. [00:36:45][34.0]
Speaker 1: [00:36:46] But yeah, the. [00:36:47][1.0]
Speaker 2: [00:36:47] Only time. [00:36:47][0.3]
Speaker 1: [00:36:48] I like this is. [00:36:48][0.6]
Speaker 2: [00:36:48] The servicing me, right? Because it's always like that weird line because you're like, Do I say something? Because they're talking about their struggles? Because when you talk to moms, they we all bond on her. What we're struggling with, like it's the dirty dishes are it's whatever people say and you get that closeness instantly when you're like, oh, I share that struggle too. And I always want to be like, Well, this is how I tolerate this so much better. [00:37:10][21.5]
Speaker 1: [00:37:11] I think it helps just to very quietly and very self assuredly just state the obvious, because what anybody thinks of you is none of your business. And it's true. You can impact people in such a meaningful way just by being authentically you and sharing your truth. And maybe that will resonate with somebody else and maybe it'll change somebody else's life for the best. But I think as a show, people think, Well, I don't. [00:37:34][23.1]
Speaker 2: [00:37:35] Give a fuck usually, but when it has to do with my kids and I'm like, I don't want someone to deny I played it with him if they think I'm the pothead. [00:37:41][6.2]
Speaker 1: [00:37:41] My point is well taken. However, we're never going to move the needle on Extremetech This is true. [00:37:46][5.2]
Speaker 2: [00:37:47] And that's why I'm like. [00:37:47][0.6]
Speaker 1: [00:37:48] I got a. [00:37:48][0.4]
Speaker 2: [00:37:49] Podcast now. [00:37:49][0.5]
Speaker 1: [00:37:50] Yeah, love it. I love it. It's awesome. [00:37:52][1.8]
Speaker 2: [00:37:53] This episode is sponsored by Money Supply Medical Cannabis Dispensary, a premiere hub for cannabis, wellness and community. Whether you're new or already a friend of cannabis, their staff is happy to guide you through the journey and offers free patient consultations. Mana has two convenient locations in Middle River and Edgewater, Maryland. While you do need a maryland medical card to access their THC containing products, they also carry a full stock of hemp and CBD that do not require a medical card. Make sure to give them a follow on Instagram at Mana Dot Maryland. That's an excellent and click on the link in their bio to see their full menu and calendar of events, including field festivals, meditation, Mondays, monthly educational webinars and more. You can also place a preorder on their website, Money supply dot com May and ASU Pennlive.com and their Edgewater location even offers a drive thru option. When you visit Mana, make sure to mention Mama Child Club and you'll receive a 25% discount as a new patient or a $5 off stackable coupon as a returning patient. [00:38:57][64.0]
Speaker 1: [00:38:59] For me, traditional medicine was not working. It was broken. It was designed. It is designed to push everybody towards the pharmaceutical industry and buy this pills ever more expensive pill. People get addicted to a pill. Patients are trained and conditioned to look and expect for immediate gratification. Gimme a pill to have sex. Give me a pill to sleep. Give me a pill to lose weight. Give me a pill for my breast not to come in. I mean, it's insane. So I was dealing with a increasingly broken system and I felt like there must be more to healing than this. So it was a little bit of the right thing that happened to me at the right time. So that's that's part of it. So I had courage that I could leave this and I would be okay. Now, my partners thought I was insane if they thought I was throwing my career away. They thought I was making such it was career suicide and I was going to just end up in the gutter. I have no idea what they thought. And I just. I believed in myself. And I think it's something that, especially as women, we just don't do enough. But why is it okay for men to be entrepreneurs and take a chance and create their own business? Women need to do this more. And I have been counseling my women for so many years to just do it, be like Nike and just do it. Then I had to walk my own walk. I had to I had to 100% own what I had been telling my patients all these years and do it myself. So to some degree, it's a benefit of having a few more years than you and having children that were older. Gina definitely sat her kids down and asked and said, Hey, Lesley, in our thinking about bidding for this dispensary, what do you think about this? I've always told you, just say no to drugs. This is very strange what you're saying. And they they supported her. But Gina actually lost at least one friend over it who just cannot get out of her way to understand that cannabis is medicine. And I am so pragmatic about it. I'm like, listen, if somebody is so small minded that they can't understand something outside of their own experience, then why do you want to be in their circle? Why do you want that energy in your life? Life is too short to to have the negative. Nancy's chirping in your ear. Like I know that I'm very West Coast. I know that I have embodied that attitude out here in Maryland, and it is just another example. And I press this upon all my patients to just be yourself, just be every single version and expression of who you actually are. And that is the secret to success. That is the secret to a meaningful life. So for you being true to yourself and certainly being concerned that some of these moms are thinking that you're weird or whatever, well, maybe they're thinking that you are today, but as what happened with me, all those negative Nancy's are now banging down on my door for me to help them or lose their patience. So when you when you stay true to your true your true self, you live your best life. You live by example, you live intentionally. Things really just do work out. They worked out for Gina. We took a huge financial risk. We took a weird career risk. And Georgina, Gina was really worried about my career. But I'm telling you, it has been an absolute joy and I would do it again. And quite honestly, I would do it younger. I would do it at your age. I would do it when when my kids were much smaller. So I just want us all to have courage and to trust our inner wisdom. Women are so smart. My God, we have such an amazing inner wisdom. I just want everybody to trust themselves, do what they know to be best for themselves, and everything works out in the end. Well, we haven't even talked about the vagina yet, my sweet girl. No, we have to go now. We have to get back to the crux of the matter here. So there's. Let's go. Let's do it. I am a board certified OBGYN, and I have a zillion patients who have forever been asking me about how to make their sex life better and what pill to take and what this and what that. And I always laughed. I'm like, God, if there was a pill, I would have you take it. And now there is a pill and there are things. So there are studies now, which is amazing. I love it when there's actual hard science to back up what our anecdotal experiences have shown us. But anybody that has tried cannabis over the years has probably experienced like pretty amazing sex at some point in their life. But. Problem with women in Canada is that there again, it's that Goldilocks like you have to have a low amount because if you have too much, it's probably not. It's either going to have an adverse effect or it's not going to have any effect on orgasm and sexual experience. So it really is a little bit of experimentation. But what you can do is you can completely change your relationship with your if you've been married for a long time, or you just don't even take your husband as attractive anymore, or you don't like him because he never does the dishes and you have a screaming baby to take care of by yourself. There are things that you can do to really reinvigorate your sex life. And unfortunately, girl lady's sex is really the glue that keeps our relationship together. So whether you accept it or not, it's just a fact. And men can't achieve the same kind of intimacy that we can. We can go out with our girlfriends over a glass of wine and be intimate as you want. And it's amazing. We're very it's very easy for us to have that level of intimacy. But men cannot. And sex is their vehicle to get that. So if you want a better relationship with your man, if you want to have a true partner in crime again and to just have a happier existence, you've got to embrace your sex life. So. So cannabis. [00:45:27][388.0]
Speaker 2: [00:45:29] How does that fit it? [00:45:30][0.6]
Speaker 1: [00:45:31] The vagina is an amazing. A vehicle for delivery systems like OPG, whereas we use medication and a vagina all the time. So some of the listeners may have actually even had to deal with that. Putting medications in the vagina. It bypasses the liver, bypasses these past effects of the liver, so the medication goes into your bloodstream very, very quickly. You can we can teach you how to make suppositories of cannabis sometimes when you are postpartum and you don't have any estrogen in your vagina, it's like sandpaper. And it's just absolute nightmare, that thin and pale outside. So when you use an oil or cannabis in there, it can help with your sensation. It helps get into your bloodstream right away. But I'm telling you guys, the orgasms, you will not even know where you are on the planet. That is really kind of unbelievable. And and it works into it because women are very strange creatures. Men want to have sex because the wind is blowing and they're all of it. They don't care. Mm hmm. Women may not have the libido that maybe you had when you were younger. You have to decide to have sex. Women decide to make a decision in their brain. Okay, I'm going to have sex tonight. It's been three days. It's Tuesday. Whatever the reason is, they decide to have sex and then things start happening after that. But whoever wants to have sex like you're tired, you'd rather go to bed. I find cannabis will, actually. Oh, my God. Right. Your closet. The counter is funny enough is the thing that you can do. It's that pill. I said that my patients always wanted me to prescribe them that will actually make them want to have sex with their friend or their partner. They may actually feel the urge again. And so not only do you get your libido back, but then the experience of the encounter becomes so much more satisfying. And it has to do with women getting out of their heads, like we're kind of solving for the area under the curve when we're there or thinking about our approach to life or being you're not. Are the kids asleep? We're thinking about what we're doing tomorrow, man. Boy, I'll tell you what they are thinking. They can focus on one thing and one thing. They good at. [00:47:48][137.7]
Speaker 2: [00:47:48] Focusing on that. [00:47:49][0.7]
Speaker 1: [00:47:49] Yep, very good. Very single, manageable. Women are right. They're amazing. They're amazing. But we are totally separate creatures, totally different. And so cannabis helps us get out of our own heads, helps us really feel the feelings in our bodies, like the sensation we feel on in a much better way, in a much more complete way. And it is really amazing stuff. So we actually have another line that we're working on for that. The whole sex life called smolder or smolder, right? Yes. But yeah, it's truly if you if you want to know more, I'm always available to people can reach out to me. That's never a problem. I answer emails all the time from all over the world and you can talk to your local dispensary agents. They're wonderful resources too. But it is. It is a wonderful way. I know probably everybody wants to hear away more about the sax, but the other thing that the vagina is so good for is delivering Madison when you are creating a terrible, terrible thing. Cramps. Yeah, that's a great way of. Yeah, it's a great delivery system. The uterus has more CB1 receptors than anywhere else in the body except for in the brain, which is. [00:49:11][82.0]
Speaker 2: [00:49:11] Part of that end of cabinet system. Right. [00:49:13][1.8]
Speaker 1: [00:49:13] It's very good. Yes. And so the female reproductive tract is just chock full of these receptors for cannabis and for our endocannabinoid system. So it's a huge, integral part of reproduction in every single way. And I love the idea of delivering medication right to the target. You're going right to our right to the uterus and your head hitting that organ where it really needs it and the patients love it. You can create a suppository and put it on the end of your tampon and have it just kind of absorbed that way. Oh, yeah, that's a. [00:49:53][39.5]
Speaker 2: [00:49:53] Great. [00:49:53][0.0]
Speaker 1: [00:49:53] Idea. Yeah. Yeah. [00:49:54][1.1]
Speaker 2: [00:49:55] I've heard about Suppositories a lot lately, and I feel that's new, new knowledge that's coming out and I'm seeing them more. And that's that's actually a really less intimidating, intimidating way of doing that and putting at the end of it. That's such a great. [00:50:11][15.7]
Speaker 1: [00:50:11] Well, we're familiar with that, right? That's not a weird delivery system. We're used to inserting a tampon. Many of us are used to that. The thing with the with the oils and with the delivery system and pleasantry is that they're weekly or they're messy. And so you have to think about that. And that's where a tampon is going to be so helpful in that regard. Also, if you're going to use a and another like oil or something, you might want to use it at that time and just put a pad on at that time. And that is really great because a lot of people can't sleep because they have such terrible cramps at night that keeps them up or in agony. Yeah, so huge delivery system for the the painful period, the cramps and all that. We love that. Our patients love that. [00:50:55][44.2]
Speaker 2: [00:50:56] Oh, yeah, yeah. I feel like because when I smoke it, it doesn't do anything for my cramps because I, I feel like smoking. It's easiest. I can't do a whole joint because I just feel like my tolerance is so low and. [00:51:05][9.7]
Speaker 1: [00:51:06] Just right out. [00:51:07][0.8]
Speaker 2: [00:51:07] Of a bowl. I have such a low tolerance, so I'll just like take a hit of flour and I'm really good at like this is part of the whole education process. For a long time I journaled. Every strain with every Turpin affects how it made me feel. Did it knocked me out? Did it make me feel uplifted? Like what? Turbines work best for me and nothing is helped cramps. So I'm very curious to try even the powder, the tampon, because that's not something I tried. And I feel like like in my head I'm like, That makes so much frickin sense because it bypasses the liver, like you said, and that's something you ever really thought around. If flour doesn't help, well, it doesn't help me specifically. But besides suppositories, what what other methods help the cramps and all that stuff. [00:51:53][45.8]
Speaker 1: [00:51:53] So it's so we have patients who do edibles and they seem to be okay with that. So it's the right edible, though. You have to have CBD in it and you can't have too much THC when you are in pain. Unfortunately, you do need higher doses of THC, but a higher dose for you and for me would be like five milligrams. A higher dose for somebody else might be like seven or eight or ten milligrams, but there's really no need. And I know that this is very popular. [00:52:25][32.0]
Speaker 2: [00:52:26] Now, that's your. [00:52:27][0.4]
Speaker 1: [00:52:27] Statement to make, but there's just no need for higher doses of THC. It just it's like you said earlier in this podcast, you said if you're not high, it's not working. That is could not be further from the truth. And we know this, right? It's it's working. You're not supposed to feel high, right? That's too much to you. See, my patients don't want that feeling. They just want to feel better. And it's such a misconception. And again, this is because it's an industry that is run by the recreational market and they're all about getting people high. And that's what our culture has decided that this this industry is all about. That's not the case. So yes, you can have effective cannabis medication coursing through your veins that is not making you lie, that is taking care of your symptoms and making you able to live your best life. Like there's a another vape pen that we did called Soup that is lemon flavored. It's called lemon aid and it's a higher strength of THC. Still has the CBD in there, but I put specific terpenes in there to keep you awake because so many of these higher dose THC options will just put you to sleep. And my patients are working. Her mom was there in the boardroom there. Whatever. They're they're trying to focus and they need medication to help their symptoms yet still be functional during the day. So there are ways of helping you fight your symptoms yet still keep you functional. And I love what you said, Elizabeth, about journaling and figuring out kind of what streams and what tripping. It's almost impossible because there are really strains. It's it's not anything that I was going to be happy to hear. But there's chemo bars or chemical varieties, there's low THC, there's high THC, and then there's balanced THC, and then there's all the other things that that fall along with that. But the planets genetically used to be much lower in THC or much higher. And so really and we ruined it. We bastardized it because of the illegal market and we bred out that tendency. So now our plants have higher, higher THC and it basically ruins it. So you can't really tell what the hell is going on anymore. [00:55:02][155.1]
Speaker 2: [00:55:02] It has actually ruined the experience for me sometimes, too. I mean, if I'm too high, sometimes it'll bring up anxiety for me or maybe amount that I've suppressed that I should probably. [00:55:12][9.2]
Speaker 1: [00:55:12] Read through. [00:55:12][0.3]
Speaker 2: [00:55:13] Or it knocks me out and I fall asleep. So it's like a really delicate, careful balance and it's almost doesn't make me nervous if I do it during the day, but I have to know what product I'm using so that way I know I'm still being the best mom at my two year old as we go do things. It makes playing super fun and I feel like like this unique connection to them when I've done a little bit of THC or CBD or whatever the combination is like, it definitely helps improve everything. [00:55:41][27.5]
Speaker 1: [00:55:41] And I just want to put a shout out to everybody to just go very slow, very low, very, very low and and just understand that your body is very different than everybody else's body. And I don't really care what happens to Susie or Sally or Mitch or Mike. I want to know what happens to you and we can work together and find you the best combination of products that make your symptoms tolerable. Because life is short, life is short, and and our kids are only for a very small time, a very short time. And we really want to be able to be present and enjoy every single minute and not be so caught up in these horrible symptoms that we all suffer from. [00:56:25][43.8]
Speaker 2: [00:56:26] Exactly. And life's too short not to get super high and blast that every once in a while, too. Like are there. Right. [00:56:31][5.3]
Speaker 1: [00:56:32] All right. [00:56:32][0.1]
Speaker 2: [00:56:33] Like when I want to go to Saturn sometimes, like I've had the best laughs in the weirdest ideas and the craziest things like, what do you and Gina, like get super baked sometimes We. [00:56:45][12.7]
Speaker 1: [00:56:46] Don't actually, because we get silly. We get silly. But I have I am a little bit different than Joey, but I will tell you that somebody told me something really amazing one time and it was the anything that has made you laugh uncontrollably. You should never be anything that you regret. And I have some of the best memories of my life of that. Just ridiculous. I mean, laughter is medicine, for God's sake, right? And and having a joint or having an edible or whatever. I mean, I have ridiculously fond memories of I'll call it drunken shopping, but it wasn't drunken shopping, but just giggling and laughing and having just wonderful experiences with the people that I love. I mean, how is that a bad thing? I mean, you're on vacation and you're you're doing this responsibly. It's just our culture has deemed that alcohol, it's fine to do that. But for whatever reason or cannabis, it's not. And I'll stand up and and state the opposite. I'll say that that everything in moderation is really the goal. And every once in a while really fun to get out of that or and it helps you be you helps balance you. All right. [00:57:58][72.8]
Speaker 2: [00:57:59] What are your favorite resources that you tell patients to find more education? [00:58:02][3.0]
Speaker 1: [00:58:05] So there is a book called The Medical Marijuana Guide by Patricia Fry that is easy to read. It's it says what I say, which I love. I love it when people agree with me. He repeats herself because this is a language that you have to learn. It's a new language. It's hard. They're big words. And so that is helpful. So I really like that. And then you could actually even use our website. We have been on so many podcasts on the Today Show. We have a lot of resources where there's really good information. And when I started, I started watching people's webinars and things like that. There's a ton of research, but if you want to just go to our page, it's high heels dot biz, and that is where all of our classes from all of the conversations that we've had over the years with a lot of people from all over the world. And so you can get a lot of little soundbites there, but don't be overwhelmed just slowly and steadily start to gain some information. Yep. [00:59:05][60.8]
Speaker 2: [00:59:06] Yeah. And then where where can we find You said that you answer lots of emails all over the world. Where can everyone find you? [00:59:13][6.9]
Speaker 1: [00:59:14] So the best email to get me is Leslie@greenhousewellness.com. That's where I do most of my cannabis conversations. I'm also the editor in chief of American Journal of Endocannabinoid Medicine and we're going to be putting out it was just acquired by flea market which is a big huge media conglomerate which we're delighted because that's going to help get the information to physicians and the practitioners so that then they can get smart and we can get smart at the same time. It's just it's amazing. So there's a lot of a lot of education to follow, but placebo dot com greenhouse wellness dot com and then high heels that is you can definitely find more information and always email me. Anybody can email me any time I'm happy to help. It's something I do almost every day who's respond to those emails? [01:00:07][53.2]
Speaker 2: [01:00:09] Awesome. Thank you. And I just want to take the time to express gratitude to you, to spending time with me today, talking through everything like you are such an example in the industries of the industry of why it's not intimidating. Thank you for answering all the questions today and spreading more knowledge with me. And I just really appreciate you as another mama because it takes a village. It we can't do this on our own. And when one mama finds a hack, we got to share it with the tribe. So thank you for sharing it with this tribe. [01:00:38][29.4]
Speaker 1: [01:00:39] It and and Elizabeth, my it's been my absolute pleasure. And I have to say, kudos to you at your young age for doing what you're doing. I give you a lot of credit and I will just encourage you to continue and to be more encourage all your listeners to be more, because that's how we're going to change things. [01:00:55][16.0]
Speaker 2: [01:00:57] Thank you again for being here today. If you got value out of this podcast, do me a favor and share this with five other mamas that you know need to hear this. Let's be there for each other and be that safe space for whatever stage of motherhood we're in. You can find Mom and Child Club on Instagram, YouTube and our website mom at Show Club dot com. If you have a specific follow up question to this episode, please go to the website and follow the question form and I'll answer them in an upcoming episode. Again, I'm Elizabeth Mom Mitchell Club. We'll see you on the next episode. [01:00:57][0.0]